Late to Grid - Grassroots Racing
We share the stories and inspiration that will help get more people behind the wheel and on the track. Track days, HPDE, SCCA, NASA, ChampCar, LeMons, and autocrossing - we interview drivers and industry insiders that will help drivers along their motorsports journey.
The name, Late To Grid? In the past the host, Bill Snow, was always late to the track, late to get the car ready, and hence - Late To Grid. His goal with the podcast is to grow the sport and highlight the tools and resources that will help you get to the track and faster behind the wheel.
Late to Grid - Grassroots Racing
Building Drivers: How Time, Tools & Family Shape Track Performance
In this episode of Late to Grid, we sit down with Mike—driver, mentor, and seasoned wrench turner—to explore how seat time, smart preparation, and family support all come together to shape a successful race weekend.
Mike shares how his years on track and in the garage have sharpened his approach to racing, teaching him what really matters: learning every time you go out. From talking through pre-race checklists to tracking tire pressures, Mike’s insight is practical, relatable, and perfect for anyone looking to level up their motorsports journey—whether you’re a beginner or a seasoned HPDE driver.
We also dive into how building a car with his son added a whole new layer to the racing experience, creating memories that go beyond lap times.
This episode is packed with tips, stories, and the kind of garage wisdom you can only get from living it.
Whether you're wrenching, racing, or raising the next driver—this one’s for you.
Race season is here. If you need to catch up on setup, or have something that needs repaired, you need to be Atomic prepped. Get to https://atomicautosports.com/ to get your car ready to get out there next weekend.
If you're chasing lap times, you need a track ready setup for your car. Get to AtomicAutosports.com to get your car scheduled to get you on the podium.
Track ready setups for time trial drivers and others
Thanks for listening and taking an interest in growing grassroots racing. The Late To Grid podcast shares the stories and inspiration that help listeners along their motorsports journey.
Find all episodes on the Atomic Autosports website.
And this week's episode of the Late Great podcast interview, Mike Medicus, who is a tire engineer with Nexen Tire. So guess what we talk about? Yes. Tires. Mike. Share some great stories about his journey into motorsports. And believe it or not, his first car on track was a Panoz. That's pretty cool. His advice just get out and autocross. And he loves the people of our sport. Well, let's not waste any more time. We're going to throw the green flag on this episode. Mike, thanks for being here. Right. And I appreciate the invite. So, like many of my guests, we met at Nelson Lounges, probably attended a lot of events together at Nelson and saw each other. And finally he came over after drivers meeting, said, hello, introduce yourselves. And I'm so glad you did because you have such an awesome journey that, you know, this could probably be a 7 or 8 hour episode and, It probably really could. I don't think you want that. I didn't get the studio for that long, so we'll we'll, we'll we'll get as far as we can, but. Yeah. No, seriously, thanks for being here, willing to share your journey. And I do like to talk about how folks got involved in motorsports. And I was your dad and a guy named, Tommy Morrison. Yeah. So what was your father's influence on motorsports in racing? So, my dad lived in Florida, and him and his high school buddies, started going to Sebring for spring break, and it turned into this thing. Bunch of really cool, cool people. They had a place down on the hairpin called, and they called themselves, the Dead End Gang. So they flew the upside down skull and crossbones. So that was a little kid, probably seven, eight years old. I would write down and, hang out with probably some of the coolest people you could imagine. And just was able to experience racing in a different way. Yeah. I don't know about my mom would probably freak out, but. Yeah. Climbing tall scaffolding. Oh, my. You know, just, you know, I don't that campfires kids who, But then another ultimately sayings running around track that just fascinated me. Yeah. Red glow and brakes. Yeah. 930 fives. Shooting flames out of the back. When they exit the, hairpin. It's just so vivid. Turbos glowing underneath the cars when that popped in between shifting and not really understanding what was happening, but just knew that it stirred me as a kid. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And then, fast forward a few years and, parents got divorced and ended up, moving from land O'Lakes up to Albany, Georgia, and my mom went to work for Tommy Morrison, and he was, Tommy Morrison was then Morrison Cook Racing. So Jim Cook, and I kind of became a little satellite shop kid. Yeah. Long hair. Liquor myself was Farrell back then. I used to ride my bike pretty long, way up there near the dealership and just hang out with the guys and then tools when they needed whatever they needed. Yeah. Yeah. Was it just a job for your mom at that? Hey, that was a great job, a great time, or did you want to be around cars? No, I was just job for mom, you know? And, turned out, you know, you had a car dealership, and then he has, this race team, and, man, did I have no idea who I was hanging out with. Skipped school one year and went to Sebring, and, was down there with the team. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, down there with that. Bobby Kennedy was racing with him. I think it was Bobby. Bobby Carradine lead revenge of the nerds. Spent the week with him. He's really funny in real life. So the whole team. So I just, cleaned up the cars when I came in from qualifying and practices. My mom wouldn't let me go into the hot pits magnet, and, so the guys built me a scarf on the backstretch sidelines. Careful. Just high enough to see over the fence. So, you know, I knew when the cars were coming in, and I'm kind of meander my way back over there. But now that was, infectious. And these are corvettes. So this is, my dad had corvettes when I was growing up. You know, and then there I am with Tommy. Yeah. Not really understanding the impact he was having with GM who wasn't supposed to be racing. Then. But he's five Mobil one right now is with GM Cadillac to this day. Yeah. Wow. So, you know, one of the things I love about that is you said yes to some opportunities. You know, it maybe bars your way into the into the shop and said, hey, I'm here to help. Just put me to work. But, you know, you have the opportunity to to miss school and, and get down there and just, you know, get exposed to things. And that's one of the things I do like to talk about is in our sport, we get a lot of opportunities. And if we say no to them, you might be on the outside looking in. But when you say yes, you figure it out, right? You learn and you know, you probably started wiping the cars down. The approach, dude, start doing a little bit more and doing a little bit more. Did you end up doing anything else with the team? No. No. It's, I hit those early teenage years. Tommy's, telling me he cut my hair. Take school more serious. And, you know, you want to listen. So I'd say the art of listening at that age we don't listen to. Well, and and, Yeah, going to concerts and and thinking I was this or that and then and girls. Right. You think? Yeah, you're just a kid. So, Yeah. Looking back and and. Yeah, there could have been other opportunities. Well, you you had told me that you wish you had listened to him. Yes. And you know what? I think you're in a pretty cool spot now. I am, but if you listened to him, where would you be? I don't know. Yeah, yeah. One of the guys designing the cars that are out there running and breaking records, I don't know. Right. Who knows? Right. Yeah. It's all part of the journey. Say no. One thing says yes to another. Correct. Maybe you're in a better spot now. Probably. What was your first car? 71 Volkswagen Bug. Really? Yeah. It was supposed to be a 69 Camaro with a built motor. My mom said absolutely not. You'll. It'll kill himself. Well, I mean, instead, let's put him in a tin can. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. That can't get out of its own way. It could. Yeah. Cause, yeah, we put a built motor in. There you go. Outside draft car. So it it would most. Yeah. Did you do anything fun with that car drag race? I did, yeah. I ended up moving to Hilton Head, South Carolina and 10th grade, I think it was, as a again, you're going from Albany, Georgia to the beach. So it's like not caring about school to you're an outsider of the colleges and talking to you. But I did get a vocational school. Met some really, really, really cool people and few of my friends today still. But there was just one carrier men and kept harassing me about my Volkswagen, and they had a lower track and this and that. And finally one day I said I was gonna race. We went and, a friend of ours went down, marked everything off. So when we pulled up, they just drop their arms, and he wasn't going to beat me, so I. Yeah, burned up the clutch that it was a no lift shift. I never even knew how to do that. But I was doing it, limped it down to Tampa that summer and to get official badges and, after a stern talking to for my dad. But I pretty heavy duty clutch in it. Yeah. It got out of the way and stuff. Oh that's awesome. Yeah. And you won the race. Absolutely embarrassed. And. Yeah. Yeah. But he changed. Yeah. The other thing with that car though was I drive it coast to coast. So I drove every bit of I-10 from, from. Well you pick it up in Savannah, I think maybe, All the way out to Malibu. Good friend of mine that I'm still friends with today. Road out there. And we're always looking at surfer magazine and not me. That used. Right. So, Yeah, it was heck of a journey. Yeah. So your first on track was about 22 years ago. Yeah. And not in a Volkswagen Beetle. Not a miata? No. You know, it was a two frame Panoz, right? Yes. Yeah, I went to about. Well, I got this great job at Pirelli Tire. And when I interviewed for the job, the plant manager, asked me what I saw myself two and in five years. So I don't know if it's a thing, but test driving made me racing, and he's like, hey, I had a I was English, so I had to make that. Then that and jobs come open and this is family owned company and we just want the best of the best in positions. So yeah, that's achievable. So it stuck with me and as we got the factory up and running and you know an opportunity came up where I could see an opportunity coming up and I, I just wanted to know if I had what it took to drive a car. Yeah. Like, you know, great. I went drag Race one time, but I'd never healed out. Shift. You know, I've never. Yeah. Just never done anything about it. So we can all talk about game. But what happens when you get out there. So did the three day school. And second day. I was getting things down pat. I was getting really comfortable. We were getting away from the lead follows and we were at lunch and then I heard, hey there's another guy from here. And I went, oh, no, because I didn't tell anybody. I saved all my money up and convinced my wife at the time, that, hey, this is like college. If this works, I mean, it's a career path. And I was comfortable. Yeah, but I didn't tell anybody else this. And lo and behold, I turn around and that's, you know, senior engineer there and, and then a crazy Italian comes over. What are you doing here? I said, what are you doing here? You know, and I told him, I said, well, I want to test drive that same thing. I just repeated, said, you, you, you know, so we can all talk a big game. But what happens when you're behind the wheel? Are you comfortable? Is that something you can do? Are you nervous? Of course we're nervous. But it's a different kind of nervous. And so, he he turns around. I don't want to get in the car with him. Like. Yeah, we don't we don't really do that. And, Joe Foster, and we became friends later in life. Also, yeah, we do. And his family sponsored the track and the school, so I'm jumped in the car. Second lap. He says go. Yeah, have fun. And came in on the third or fourth lap. I everybody else was having lunch. Walk upstairs. He said, okay, you're test track. I'm like, what? And you can't make it out. But really? Yeah, that's that's how it happened. It took time because, the position I held in the factory, it took some time to get some speed. But, you know, I went over and had to learn and or testing. And the reward was to get ahead and my comes ahead. Yeah. I could go out and train with him while he's doing testing. What is indoor tire testing? Wow. That's a loaded question. Yeah. He said we only have our now. So it's all the static testing we do. So like, when you get a project, for instance, they'll give you a certain spring rate, so they give you a tire that they want you to emulate. And they like the attributes of said tire by rolling resistance, maybe. Okay. Endurance, you know, high speed depends on so many other factors that, yeah. So I started doing static testing, which is footprints, spring rates calculations at different and, and loads and pressures. Right. And then rolling resistance. That's the calculations for gas mileage. Right. But in between all that, you know, we've got outdoor, sorry, wear testing, tread wear testing. So we have this machine scans, treads, send them out, for testing. And they come back and we scan them again, and it gives you your projections, which is your 200. Yeah. 200 take. Right. Okay. So this is all the stuff that I was getting loaded with. So not only did I understand building tires and understood compounding tires because we had to test all the compounds. Now I start understanding the indoor stuff. And then you put yourself in this perfect scenario with good engineers, and you start learning feeling cars. Explanation. This is that, this is this. And I'm like, hey, we can fix that with a belt angle change. Yeah, but how do you know this? You know, I'm like, well, I was raised out there in the factory, right? So, just meant there's there's this perfect sequence of events that, you know, you really can't make it at. Wow. All right? I never knew never thought about that type of, you know, thought that goes into, hey, we're gonna put this model out, and this is what we need the tire to do. Yeah, yeah. So I'm in Rome, Georgia, of all places again. We end up back in Georgia, you know, and, Tommy, the first time, and you're with this now, you know, a legend at this time. Now you're with Pirelli, one of the, in my mind, one of the best manufacturers at the time. I didn't know anything about tires other than Sebring and who always kind of won down there, who was on the most and the coolest cars, we'll say once Pirelli. So I had the association as a young kid and what Pirelli stood for, which is the best of the best. Right. So and here they are in Rome in now I'm driving prototypes and I'm there, you know, the just looking back, I wish I had this book, you know, that I could have just jotted everything down because it's just impossible to frame it. Yeah, but, you know, you're driving the new Mustang that's coming out, and police pull you over to check the car out, you know, and, the new Camaro, when it came out, you know, we got the car straight from Australia before GM to really go to war with those guys. But yeah, it was a right. And the Holden cut in half. Right hand drive I'll Frankenstein out plexiglass windows. And there I am at right Atlanta driving this car. And I'm thinking what world is happening to me. You pinch yourself. Like, yeah, this in back. Yeah. Looking back it was great. That's neat. Yeah. So, you did the piano school and, when did you get on track again? After that? Well, pretty much. Well, aside from work. So there was, because we had the track, we did a lot of testing right at the time. We took on Prodrive, the Aston Martins, to go head to head against Corvette and GM. There's another whole story there. It's pretty cool on, and then we had prototypes running. So we were in Lmp2 and as retired war days, you know, spec tires. So I was able to get out on track maybe with unofficially some of the other people believe out there. Okay. Yeah. No kidding. But talk about getting seat time. Yeah. How do you put a price on that? Right, right. You can't. Yeah. There's no way. Yeah. Some someone bounced around a little bit because, I mean, I just made a mental note. I'm going to I'm going to follow you wherever you're doing a track day or something, because. And then I'm going to come over and bug you and say, okay, here's what my car's doing. What do I need to do tire wise, suspension wise? Yeah. All of a sudden. If I have my parameter and this is not a drag, if I have my parameters, let's. I'll find a rider. If you see that, or I usually do have it, I can I can come over and just take some temperatures and pretty much look at the tires and tell him exactly what to do. Yeah, that's what I did. I was we fast forward over to Hancock this what I ended up doing for Radical Carb and that's for America's, not for. And then some GT races. Yeah. And you have some autocross in your background, right? Yeah, yeah. Walk us through that. What, what what was it, an invitation. How did you what made you decide to go do that? I actually did it a couple times was when I was in Georgia, when the Porsche Club of America instructor. Down at, Atlanta Stadium, the big blue all in the parking lot. Yeah. And some kind of magic happened there, you know, and I'm doing all this test driving, and I'm in this car, and, you know, I'm thinking I'm a track snob and you go out there and it's like, wait a minute, I can only walk this course now you're kind of teasing yourself a little, you know, because now you have to put this puzzle together at a at a rate that's. Yeah. Pretty incredible. So I did it a few times down there and then never really got back in a seat. I think I printed off some stuff, but, it was like 21. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And that was, Dragway 42. Yeah. I had to stop that. I went out there and it started driving and through. That's how I met some of these people, I think, call you out. Chip trip manual. He help me out? I could tell I was completely lost. You know, I don't care how much you know about things, right? But, you know, you still lost, right? Yes. So. Yeah. And and just jumped in the stream of people. That was just amazing. Yeah. Chips. Great. Very helpful. Very, very smart guy. Super smart guy. I, don't know why he likes me at all. Is is a wonderful guy, but he really kind of, you know, him and some other folks kind of just put me under the wing a little bit, and I just followed him around and tell me to go here and go there and started going over to Pitt, race and. Oh, that was humbling. My car with my little Debbie that could, it was in RDS. Okay. And I go over that Pitt race and I think there were seven type cars. And I'm like, this is not going to go well, right. That's fast. They just set fast courses. There. Fast courses. And again, being naive, you don't know who you're around. And and I think, you know, sitting here now in front of you and understanding what's going on over there, there's some magic going on with that group between there and Toledo. And it's these guys are fast. There's all these national champions. Yeah. You know, like, how does this happen? And this spot. And that's kind of what started happening for me. I had some people, Brad Thompson, let me ride with him in a car, and we did some code writing together. And Anthony, he was a guy. And faster cars ever modified. Riding with them, learning. Just looking back, it was. It was insane that following year, this is the first year, 21, 22 maybe. I got a rear bar on the car and so I'm sorry, 70 ones. And kind of started progressing a little bit. And then out of nowhere, this unique fella, Alex Peel, shows up, jumps in a car with me, and the guy is magic behind the wheel. Ham and chip and everybody and trying to jump in all these different cars. It was an acceleration I was learning because of my background. I think it was pretty good. Yeah, yeah. So you worked in there a few different ways to learn. Yeah. You know, people was one. Well, what do you think helped you learn the most to get quicker around an autocross course? The driver mods between the years, you know, you got to kind of let go. So that goes back to test drive and I had to track. It's one thing to kind of like go you know what I mean. And there's a I can points there's apexes. You know what I mean. It's only so fast you can go in through your turn. It's only so fast you can get out of that turn. I don't care what you're driving. You might get there quicker or whatever, but it's still the same. Yeah, well, with autocross, you break rules. You know, you are driving ahead of the car, but you more. What I learned was, more of the angle of the car, approaching silent. The car position is probably more important than anything. Yeah, but then understanding the balance of whatever it is you're driving and that's that you're going through a vast slalom, and you put the car 1.1 on this side, you want 1.1 on the other side. And in between those two you're modulating throttle or doing whatever it takes to keep your angles. Yeah. You're breaking rules. Have you ever done gone out on track, with an auto crosser and they're in the driver's seat. You mean a racetrack. A racetrack, a. Racetrack, and they're first time on the no. Yeah. It's it's an experience. I did that, and I'm like, what is this person doing? Because they're in the points you make, they're approaching turns and apexes and turning points and exits a lot differently in a crash course than you are on a road track, a road course. And I, I think about that all the time. I have a headache when I get out of the car, you know, you're jerking around and oh my gosh, you know, eventually you'll get it, buddy. But, you know, smooth it out. Yep. Smooth as fast. Yeah. Yeah. But you can still be smooth and autocross and still be fast. Do you still autocross today? I do, yeah, I think it's very something. Looking back, it's very hard to undo once you're a track guy or whatever. It's very hard to, undo it. Yeah. There's disciplines, to get autocross, but I think when you're autocross and you're learning at such a rate, you're so far ahead of your car, you're so in tune with what's going on. The, the the rate at what you're working at is much higher. So I think when you get to a track, it's, it's almost relaxing. And, you know, talking to Nat Glazer, I was telling him that, you know, and he's like, man, please, please get that out to people. Because the track stuff does come easier once once you've autocross. Because if you're throwing around a Corvette at 65, 70 miles an hour in a parking lot and, you know, you go out to Nelson's Latches, it's. Yeah, you're at one and you're on the edge, but it's relaxing, right? It's not as intense. It's very intense. Auto crossing is very intense depending on like no matter what you're driving, I think. Oh, yeah. The rate you talk about, having to learn a new course every time you go out, you know, a lot different than going to the same track every weekend. Well, you know, you go out there and and you're working first. This is true. Pull up to the line. And I've had somebody ride with me and and like, you know, there's course and like, I think so by the time they say, what do you mean you, you've dropped the clutch. Yeah. And you figure it out. So you know. Yeah I think I remember. And you did it in the C4. Or you know, so I made the jump from a demo to, to a C5. All right. A friend of mine saw me progressing through the NX and his name's Scott. It's ISAF racing. Well, wonderful individual. To this day. I questioned why he gave me this opportunity, but I'm so thankful for it. Because it helped me grow. You really have to grow when you get into the cannabis segments and, leave all the other segments. The cars in a lot of other classes are faster. But driving one of those cars, Man one that's right. That's that's special. And don't always get it right, you know? So it's difficult. But when you let go and let things happen, let the car go where it wants to go versus trying to fight the car on the lower classes, you kind of fight in the car a little bit to stay and shorten the course. And, once again, very fortunate to get in with the right people. They help me look at courses different one of those. Yeah. You're back signing walk and you're not worried about you know, that cone right there. You you're outside and I don't know if I can say this, but, I scanned him. Danny, pop told me if you're not on the gas, you're losing your ass. The other thing he told me is you're not driving a cam car if you don't see corner workers backing up. So. Wow. Those. That's that's true. That's very true. And that started happening later. But. Yeah, and that's true very true. Yeah. What's the rest of the season look like for autocross for you? I haven't done any this year. Okay. I'm missing it. But I'm doing a lot of other neat things. So, you know, that's the film that's still there, right? Yeah. So let's talk about what you're doing this season. What kind of events have you been attending and participating in? Yeah, this, this, this season really looked like I wasn't really going to be doing much. And then, if we back the story up to the next thing, this Corvette comes in, and my wife and, you know, out of hibernation, and, did a deal with Nixon and said, hey, let's do this like Hart does, like Honda. Let me work on it at launch, for work at launch or after work or during the weekend. I'll just let you know when I'm here. And, you know, that's how it started happening. So I think what, people started noticing and, you know, you never know what kind of impact you're making on people first off. Right. And I'm not trying to be there now to shine anybody or anything. It's to do the stuff we do and motorsports. You have to be a glutton for some sort of punishment. And, you know, some of that time and when you're learning a new car and bringing something and you just a lot of things you get to fix on things you have to know, you know, and so you start this relationship with this car. Yeah. And, yeah. So I started doing that. Is that the C5? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. An amazing car, if you seen that. I'm sure you had. I played with Red wheels. You can't miss it. I don't know that I've seen it. Yeah, it's pretty cool. I bet it. Is. Yeah, it's really cool. I think everybody has a C5 except me. Probably my very. Popular. Platform. Yeah, I got a C4 now, and it's the same year I went with Tommy to Sebring, which is 86. Nice. So that car kind of popped up from Scott and pointed me in the direction and he said, go take a look at this thing. I think you can make it nice and it needs love that. Yeah, that's what we do right. Yes. And does that see track time. No no no I'm just driving it getting more reliable. But where I was leading to was an opportunity came up to maybe work on the next generation of sport. And that's what this season turned into. So, we did kind of on many one lap of America, and then we went and got an Elantra N, and we picked the size that, we're changing the construction of this tire so that we can hit more volume with it. And we didn't want this tire to change is a very. And I'm not saying that just because I'm at an accent, but it's a really good, consistent tire. And, my experience in racing, you don't you don't want to change it so much. If you got something good that's. Yeah. Reliable. As long life is that any other so here comes this opportunity to get an Elantra N and we hit the ground running with that man. Another great person. Jeremiah joined our group vehicle dynamics engineer from Stellantis. A lot of tire modeling experience. He's he's pretty not pretty. He's pretty great guy that, and he kind of backed me into this C5 because I was at a stopping point. I wasn't driving in that quick. And anybody who knows me knows that there was more time in that car, and I was just letting go. But Jeremiah showed me data. We looked at data and, I went to a pro solo and and it happened. Right? That magic happens. Me you might go and something special happens. But that all led to this development cycle. And I find myself doing Memorial Day weekend, two days at pit race Sunday night, we drove straight to Mid-Ohio and we did two days at Mid-Ohio to back to Richfield. These are on the same set, by the way. Yeah. And we go back to Richfield, kind of related new tires and wheels and head on down to Vir. And I did two days there. But I didn't have experience at Mid-Ohio and I didn't have experience at Vir. And we're running a ten track days. And because of both of our backgrounds, you know, they really kind of helped us more than they should have. Really? That's what a group of people that is say. So again, what you're hearing is all these relationships, you know, it takes a village. None of this stuff happens for anybody overnight. Like pretty much nobody. I know where you're grinding it out, right. And working on your own stuff. You're kind of doing a. Lot of guessing and a lot of it. You go, yes, yeah, yeah, a lot of missed targets. So so that's what happened there. And then from that, and getting invited out to Nelson's villages and jumped into a BMW and didn't drive that car. So I left the pitch. By the way, and, and, you know, with race boots on, yeah. I couldn't really reach the pedals. And so my first lap or two, I was loosening belt, trying to get situated, but quickly kind of got my bearings. And what an opportunity that was. And, managed to keep third place, I think overall. And then first in class and. Right. That was a good adventure. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Nice. That's pretty neat. That's pretty neat. You know, one thing you mentioned is, all these different cars you're jumping in and out of different tracks. People have told me I get comfortable with my car, I can't jump into another car. So what advice would you have for someone that is lucky enough to get the opportunity to jump in a couple different cars? How do you how do you learn? How do you adapt? How do. You process? Well, thankfully back into the rally. Remember all the feeling stuff, right? It's, I always tell people, you know, the car is great, right? And you're not really driving of the car. You're driving an element of a tire. So I think really quickly you got to kind of figure out what the power is on the car, which relates to how much steering input you're going to have when you pick up throttle and how much brakes do the car have. Yeah. Is it a momentum car. Are you able to carry more full speed in. You know, just a crazy fast car that you got to slow up a lot and as you're unwinding the wheel kind of connect? Yeah I call it like a high horsepower rear wheel drive. The guys are panache. Always told me connected to that throttle. So, you know, if you have steering and put your left in your foot, it's almost like a dimmer switch as you're, cranking, that will you're laying into that. Relational. Very much. Yeah. But you can apply that across the board, whether it's front wheel drive, high power or all wheel drive. If you start with those basics, you know, start learning the car really, really quickly. Man. You know, I. Guys like you in our sport really impressed me. And then I get jealous. I'm like, you know, I can't. I'll go out and be like, I guess the tires are okay. I don't do I do I leave them where they are? Do I change them? Do I make my suspension stiffer? I mean, all this stuff that you got is amazing. And and we're lucky to, you know, hear your story and have you at the track to share it sometimes. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. But again, it just goes back to, you know, having opportunities to pick up nuggets from all these different engineers. Everybody has a different style. Even in development cycles, each one of the engineers do things differently. And so you just have to from that right seat, pick that up, mimic that, hide something that you don't want to show it while mimicking. So it's almost like being a ventriloquist. I guess you probably didn't say that right? That's a big word. Yeah. No, it's, it sounded great. So I know you recently did some wheel. The wheel racing, where we, you know, we talked about test. We talked about wheel the wheel. We talked about autocross. Where's where's your heart line with all that you had? You had to do one discipline going forward. What would it be all the time? Endurance racing. Yeah. I mean, I I'm not and I know this and I'm okay with this statement as I'm not the rabbit. I'm the guy that you want to put in because this is what they taught me in testing. You know, as you're driving a prototype car, it's one of one, and there's millions of dollars in it if we break it. You broke the only one. It broke the only one. And you're not getting the part. Also, it's that relationship with the array. So, the test driver says if I break it, I'm doing my job. If you break it, you're an idiot. So, learn how to drive. Again, you're not driving the car to its limit. You have to have breaks at the end of the day. So this is perfect scenario to make an endurance racer. I think I would be you're. Yeah. You're mid stint kind of guy. You tell me to run at 216 I'll run two sixteens. You tell me to pick up the pace. We can pick up the pace. But when I give the car back it's going to have brakes and it's probably going to have gas. And you'll definitely have some tire left. Man, we got to get you racing with right there. I got to get you in the neons. Yeah. And be cool. Help us get those things dialed in. I you guys did pretty good out there. Yeah, that's a pretty good drivers. We do. We are lucky. Yeah. We've got we've got some good drivers. But you know to your point and I was reading something this morning and this is very basic for endurance racing. Oh you know, I did I, I may have, might have been one of the I told, hey, I just wanted to start to do to maybe learn some more strategy for 24 hour events. And the initial feedback I got from my query was it was basically you have to finish the event. Absolutely. Yeah. And and sometimes folks don't understand that because I want to go out and set the fastest time for my team. I want to you know what. That red civic's really bothering me man. I want to run him down or her down and get past them or you know what I see these F1 drivers bouncing off curbs and I want to bounce off curbs because we have met this track and that's not what endurance racing is, but it is a lot of fun. I could see why you like it and, there's no bigger bang for the buck now. There's not. And that's an argument that, you know, that I hear really is autocross. Right. So you get all this time, the Corvette, I do how I'm very fortunate when when I say I have to also have a truck and a trailer available. But there's a lot of work there. So just to get to flat out. Yeah. Like if I want to get to Toledo Saturday that starts Thursday. Yes. You know And time is a is a precious commodity. It is. And then you're at pace for I am to get over there. Yeah. By seven you try because I always as if it's two hours. I still build an extra hour because something's bound to go wrong. You're hauling something or you forget something or something. You know what I mean? So you get all this time, and you go out, and at the end of the day, you may have, I don't know, like 3 or 4 minutes. Right? Total. And you're loading back at. Yeah. Standing in the sun. You're melted all day and you got to drive it back and, you know, just drive it back and pull it up and unload it, you know, I mean. Yeah. And walk away. It's another day of unpacking and looking the car over in between and yeah, it's not, so it's not easy. That's not me whining. And yeah, I hear somebody saying, cry me a river. But there is something to also be said about towing wheels in a car and just taken off on a whim, right? Oh, yeah. So that's the other cool side. So if you could do that, I think, there's something to be said there. It's okay. Well, I have time today or tomorrow. It's like, that's going to Toledo or let's go to pit race. Anywhere you go, you're racing against the best in the country, no matter what class you're. And. Yeah, true. So you can really it's a really good measure of where you are I think. So you mentioned, you might forget something. So it's something that you tend to forget when you go to an event. Ace. Okay. Yeah. You know, I try to get gassed out. I try to ice everything down. I try to, you know, man, did I do that strap? I remember doing a strap, you know, stop at the next rest area and you're checking everything. Very. Smart. You know, did I lock the toolboxes? Are the. Because I open and slamming around my tools everywhere or. Yeah, I check the torque on the wheels for the trailer. Just my way. My brain is when I'm driving, I'm like, why aren't you doing the checklist? And so. Yeah. And so those are things I've never forgot a helmet. That's good. So, that's, Yeah. It's just just, you know, things. Right? I just read, it was, one of the, one of the groups on Facebook. I forget where it was. And a participant had posted. I forgot my trailer keys. Oh. Okay. Does anyone know, Or. No. No. I'm sorry. He forgot his car keys. It was a miata. Forgot his car keys, and he was posting. Did anyone know a workaround? And then he was trying to connect with locksmiths. The fourth locksmith he connected with was able to cut him a key. Wow. Based on the van or based on the number? I could see that. Can you imagine that? No, no, I can't, no, I can't. Yeah. This is why I work with somebody like, you know, Scott, you know, and the trailer, you open it up and there's colored keys. Everything's hanging in that spot. Right. So that's another check like you said as I, as quarterback Keyser. Yeah I was like yeah there they are. Yeah. So you do have to fit these things in place because sometimes time gets narrow and you hurry things right. Yep. But you don't want to make those kind of mistakes and it's easy to do. What's the best advice Motorsports advice someone has shared with you? Man, don't press issues. Send like, if you're trying to work with somebody on tires, let's just say if you feel like you're really having to press to get somewhere, I think it's time to back it down a little bit. In other words, if it's a money thing, if we look at racing in general, you know, if we look at professional racing and so there's a lot of money involved and I've seen some, you know, unfortunate things happen there where somebody maybe gets a steering wheel taken off the car and then get it back till they write a check. And these people are passionate and they put a lot on the line. I think if you're getting narrow on funds, if it's, it's a stretch to get to that track so that you get into a car and you're uncomfortable for the wrong reasons, you're, you're you're not supposed to be there. I think I think that's what I've learned in watching motorsports and I've learned it. Being in motorsports, is I feel like if you're just really pressing, you know, for sponsorship dollars, you know, man, I got to get to this event. I got to get to this event. I got to get to this event. You know, you get to that event, and it's it's not what it's supposed to be because it doesn't feel right. Because it's not right. Yeah. So financially, you know, maybe that's what it is. Make sure you have things in order. Sure. There's a lot of times that this journey I went on with this Corvette, you know, it was a stretch for me to do this stuff, but I did it my way. It's like you have to finish this. You can't stop this stuff just falling in place. That's a little different, you know, versus pressing. Right. You know what I mean? I don't know if that makes sense. It does. Absolutely. Yeah. If someone were to approach you and say, Mike, I want to get into motorsports, I want to get into racing. From a behind the wheel perspective, what advice would you offer them? Start out in autocross. Get get with some really good drivers in autocross. Do it. Do a full season. Even there at that level, if you want to be super competitive, you have to be squared away. That's one thing I've learned from these guys. Average Dale cities. Man, these guys are prepared. They know what they're doing. They've done their research. So I think if you can do that at that small level, you know what I mean? And I think you can learn from those experiences and you learn kind of at a lower level, you know, what tech is. Yeah, may seem crazy, but yeah, you have to get your car attacked. Well, what does that mean? You know, a lot of people don't know when they go out there. You know. I know I used to do tech first autocross. Probably seeing you there. Maybe I forgot something, I don't know, but. No. Yeah. So I would say probably do a really high level if you even if you can. Right. The tracks just go get a feel for it. After a while doing that I would say do some track days like open track days, like watching track days for instance. You're going to be in with very experienced drivers out there. Can I tell you where you are. And also I tell somebody, take in the scan, you're going to get told you're not doing a lot of things right. Yeah. So, you know, you have to be prepared to go in and kind of really be beat down. Check the ego at the gate. Absolutely. Yeah. And you learn that at autocross. I don't care if guys in a miata, that same guy will chase you down and attract. If we run a GT4, if you don't know what you're doing. So I would say start small, get really, really organized, understand what that organization is. And you can simultaneously grow into, a few track days and maybe some time trials. You know, that way you get a really feel, get a really good feel for what's going on, but you're also going to be exposed to different platforms and cars. And like you said, the opportunities to jump in other cars that you maybe weren't even thinking about. Yeah folks. So if so, folks listening might not know that as people say, you want to drive my car and you should always say yes. Yes. Unless you're super uncomfortable with, you know, high horsepower or something like that. Me being a newbie. Yeah. But anytime someone you know, you might be polite now, not right now. Maybe next event. Just do it. Absolutely. Yeah. Because, you know, it's also an honor when somebody offers it and that opportunity to drive the car. Right. That's a special opportunity. You learn. So earlier, ask what you love about the sport. And you had a couple of references to barbecue. So. But I like I like what you told me that, you know, being at the track and being involved in motorsports and racing it, there's a lot of senses that get touched. Yeah. Plus your emotions, your endorphins, all that other stuff. But let's go back to barbecue. So what track have you been to that had the best? Let's just go broadly and say food. Then let's dial it in the barbecue. Well the food. Remember I told you my dad. Yeah. And Gary, the dad and gang, dad, Gary got really good at cooking. So they had the reputation. So everybody just kind of came down, migrated that way, and, you know, they just shared the food. You know, it opens up conversations. You know, no matter where you're at, there's two things that happen when you're autocross in a race and has the car starts conversation, and food. Right? Yeah. So, really quickly, at a young age, I had that food association when this crazy stuff that's happening on the other side of this fence, you know what's going on here, right? But then, yeah, it's it's the food. So, like the barbecue track, I sorry, I can't remember the name of them. One and pit race. Oh, yeah. But yeah. So the beef, doesn't it? Man, I could breakfast, I can't get lunch, and you don't know how good you have it there, because that's just more stuff. You don't have to unpack. It's more stuff you don't have to take. And it's really good food. Yeah. And that's a pro tip right there. If there's concessions, support them because they're supporting the track. Absolutely. And it's one less thing you got to pack. It is. And there's your protein your energy and everything else. And then Toledo of all places, there's a food truck there. And that's the first time I've had a barbecue parfait. Oh, really? What's that? Man to hot mess of good. It's like a layer as, cheese. Let's just say then, like, I don't. That melted Mexican cheesecake. So kind of, barbecue. So. And some macaroni in there, and then just keep layer in it. And the beautiful thing about that is you be out of a cup with a spoon, and your hands don't get dirty. That is, that's genius. And it's really good. And there's several, several different ways to order that. So yeah. No, that's too great places there that offer food that I'm remembering today now mouthwatering and I. Want I know I can't I'm getting hungry for lunch. Let's, let's talk about tires for a minute. And if you could share some advice and let's, let's just talk to the track day, folks for this. You roll up, it's probably 60 degrees in the morning, and then by the time you end, you know, you could be in an 80, 90 degree day. Yeah. Running multiple sessions. What advice do you give folks and assume they don't really know anything about setting tire pressures, checking them throughout the day and adjusting them? What should somebody be doing? Yeah, depending on what you're doing, I always, and believe this or not, I always will start around placard whatever the car's marked at, you know? Yeah. Even if it's cold, if it's hot or whatever, and it's just getting that feeling down and then pay attention to the tread wear. So it sounds complicated, but it is not, you know, if you start, even if you don't have a way to measure temperature, you could still look at the wear on the tire to see what it's doing. Sure. You know, and then that feedback. Right. So there's the car turning into quick and the front, you know, it's the rear. Is it. Yeah. Oversteer, which is loose or is it under steering or you're pushing and the turns and stuff. So you could start playing with pressures that way to change the balance of the car. Sounds complicated, but it's really very easy. And it really it's really very easy. Just pay attention to the where and then where are you comfortable at in the car and just play with pressures. So many people go down rabbit holes and, start changing the car and this and that. Really when you get to these points, you should be the car should still feel pretty good, even if you're in any you've drive it. Let's just say it's a stock car and you're running at a time trial or SCCA. What is it that evenings? Whatever. Oh, track nine. American nine America. Yes, sir. You know, that's a car you're still familiar with, right? So you just start at those points, you know, and then check your pressures. Yes. After those runs to see what your gains are and mental notes when you're driving. How what's the car doing? Right. And then you can start playing with pressures expansion. Is there a good resource that someone can go to to understand what to do? When you know this is happening, go down by 2 pounds. If this is happening, go up by 3 pounds. Working for another manufacturer who shall not be named. They actually had a book for that. Oh, really? So, yeah, you can you with tools that we have in our hand now with the phone, you can really learn a lot before you get to that track about that tire and about your car so you can do some homework. And know where you are, you know. Right. So where is this all going to lead the racing part of it? What's the ultimate goal for you? I'm a little bit older. Nobody can see me. I'm. I'm gray, gray bearded man now, but I still am inspired by, you know, there's some people still racing up into their 70s. I would still love to put something together to do a full season and a series. And I would still like to do that, whether that, you know, I don't know what that looks like. Is that a high power car, that it low power, I think, I would like to do a whole season. Anything like all SRO air, that type of thing. Yeah. SRO okay. Amps is the daydream. Sure. I tossed around the idea of being pro some years back, and that is just that. Remember what I was saying earlier about the all this work you're putting in and that feeling. Right. So if you're doing all this work and you're having to put together $300,000 or $1 million for a season, you know. Trying to frame that right in your mind, what does that look like? What does it look like? Everybody puts that thought process and everything going perfect, right? If you watch all the racing, I watch because when I'm not racing, I'm watching racing. I recorded the races that real when I've been racing and I watch it during the week, rarely does everything go perfect. Yeah. Just ask Team Penske right now. Right? Right. That's one example. Yeah. But you know, there's these cars are expensive now, a GT car, you know, cost $900,000 to get a car,$9,000 per door. I mean, think about that. You then carbon break change on the corner or around the cars. 12. Okay, so you got to really wrap your head around where it is you want to be. I think. And, I really like, at this point, this moment, this second, I like what grid life has going on. Yeah, that's what the talk is. Yeah, yeah. I've been very fortunate to work with one of the racers. They're my Kubiak races. They're two. Right. Anton Rosenberg, what a great, great, hard working young man. But I ran across him. Just helped him with the entire staff. Our tire, the max, and, and fair sport is what it is. And, went down and did some testing with them on my own time. I took time off to go down to help him at the track. He was open. He wanted to listen. He listened. He applied it, and he won a championship. And I said, get some good feeling. But just talking with him, and understanding what's happening in that, I'll call it a movement. It's kind of like taking this steel series group right here and saying, hey, let's go racing all these big tracks. And then by the way, there's a stir concert in there, you know, and a car show and drifting. Yeah. So I think, you know, the experience a lot of different things in a weekend there. Yeah, it definitely is, is fun. I want to ask you, you know, you talked about, Motown Rosenberg and that and we use that as an example of, of helping somebody through the testing. What sort of feedback are you looking for from the driver? And then how are you processing that into changes with the tire, whether it be whether it be alignment set up, because that impacts at all, whether it be tire pressure. First off, what are you looking for from the driver? What's the best advice or what's the best feedback they can give you? First off, I, I, I just kind of get to know him, believe it or not. And you only have a really narrow window for this opportunity. You know, you walk up, like, in his case, he's earning it. You know, he's doing, he's coaching and he's earning his time at the track to make his car better. So there's a lot of moving parts, really smart. And I knew he was going to listen, you know, and that's the other thing is, how much time do you want to give somebody right? As if somebody knows everything already. You know, what are we trying to accomplish today? But that driver feedback on what's going on, you know, like taking into account how long is races are, what are what it is peak pressures. Once he's saying, he has weight penalties too. So he's seen some different things going on. And at the time I went down, he was seeing some pretty wild wear on, on one, one side of the car. So I was trying to figure out what was going on on this side of this car. And, once again, at simplify it, it's just pressures and temperatures. Yeah. Give me three, 4 or 5 laps driving like you normally do. Start where the car is now. Run the pressures, you run. And of course I check those. And then I want to see what the pressure gains are. Yeah. Once I run around that car, which I can do and very quickly with this gauge, it'll show me all these gains. So it tells the story right here. And whether you're in the car, I get that feedback immediately. This is what I'm seeing right here. Let's do this change here and replicate what you just did. Give me 3 or 4 laps. Okay? You say you make a pressure change. Maybe drops and pressures out it goes, and then you want to hear the feedback again. What was the car doing? Where are we at. And that's when you can really start doing some work is when somebody is really in tune with your car and they're listening. Sure. Is that art of listening? And it's lost. I didn't find it till later in life. Has I mean, after all this, has anyone ever said it's perfect? Mike. No. And there's always a change or never perfect. Yeah, yeah, it's a sliding target, that's for sure. Like I said earlier, I'm a glutton for punishment. But never, never. Perfect conditions change throughout the day as well, all through the event, even through the test session. So temperature humidity. Rain. Yeah. Cloud cover. Other cars on track, chemicals on track. What you name it. All kinds of. Yeah. High drag tracks, medium dirt tracks. That's where I learned jumping in between pit race and Mid-Ohio. Yeah. And then ver. You know it's something that when you're running back to back to back to back like that, you know at that rate, it's like wow, okay. Next pit race, I'm going to do this a little differently because of the wear rate there or higher deg. You know, in Mid-Ohio it's nearly paved. So it's kind of polish the tires more or less. And then we are you know, we started with new tires there. And that was a really low drag track. It was a a low mu surface. So I had to drive the car differently, drive the same tires differently. But it's just understanding what's going on. Right. And there's a lot of moving parts. Is there anything we didn't talk about that you wanted to some, you wanted to share a bit of advice? I think if you want to grow just even as a person, if you're in a pickle, let's just say a lot going on in life. And you need to change now, I don't mean to sound silly, but if you need to change gears, I really think there's going to be a local autocross and is getting out and meeting different people and expanding your, I don't know, you know, coming out of the pandemic, everybody kind of withdrew, you know, coming out of that pandemic. And it's getting down around people. And learning, you know. Yeah. And stretching yourself. So all this, this crazy journey I've been on and it's been a stretch, you know, some older, relearning things and, learning more about myself, you know, that's going to get you in good shape. I notice on weekends and when I drive I'm hydrated really well I'm eating really well. And then guess what. When I'm done it's like the next week or two I'm like eating junk food and it's like hey what are you do on yourself. Right? So it just gives you this added discipline, you know, and it gives you maybe a sense of, okay, what state of mind you're in. Sometimes we all get lost, right? And it makes you focus just on one thing for a short amount of time. But that can impact your life in many different ways. And whether it's relationships with your kids, you know, your wife, whoever. Yeah, I think it just that and you can knock down some barriers and learn a lot about yourself. Absolutely. I have two more questions. One tire related. What's the biggest mistake you see with people and their tires at whether it's an autocross, a band, race track, day? A lot of people want to go really, really wide with wheels, stretch tires. I just I've never been a big fan of that. Data shows that it's not really great to do that. You know, wider. Everybody's going so wide with these cars, now, and that's great, you know? But as you do this, you know, you're, you're adding weight to each corner of this car. So, you know, if you're running an 18 by 12.5 and I'm running an 18 by 11, my tires squared up, I'm going to get better where I'm going, I better tire life and have a good time. And I think other people will be struggling. Gotcha. Yeah. Unsprung weight you know. Not across. And that's just quicker transitions through slaloms. The car sets up quicker. Everything's quicker. With that. Less weight. Yeah. And then the the final question and thanks for that insight. The final question. Have you ever been late? Have you ever been late to grid? Yes. All right. What's the story there? Yeah, I was going to Toledo. I made a call to somebody and I was like, look, I'm running late, so no pun intended. You know, can I still make this, you know, and it's like. Yeah, sure. So as I'm unloading the car, you know, the person that came over and took the car as I'm throwing my helmet and everything in, and guess what? I was one of the first groups out, so. Oh, sure. Yeah. So that wasn't really fun. But again, you remember these relationships we talked about. You know, when you go in, you're calm, to advance and you help people around you, and you can recognize when somebody's struggling. Fortunately, a lot of these people that have this big list in front of me, I didn't name them all. But, you know, they might see me struggling and they just give me that time and just moment. Hey, get out of your head. You can do this. You know, sometimes it's from the least expecting person, you know? Oh, yeah. But then remembering that and giving that back when some, when you see somebody else struggling, you know, just step out and help. And I think, you know, when you front end of this way to Greg. Yeah. Somebody will remember you helping them. Oh, yeah. And they'll definitely remember this jerk. Oh, for sure. You're not going to make me feel. Yeah, yeah. Well, Mike, thanks for being here and sharing your motorsports journey. And I definitely want to keep tabs and keep in contact with you and maybe heavy on again. Man, that'd be great. And I appreciate the opportunity. Yeah, it's been great.