Late to Grid - Grassroots Racing
We share the stories and inspiration that will help get more people behind the wheel and on the track. Track days, HPDE, SCCA, NASA, ChampCar, LeMons, and autocrossing - we interview drivers and industry insiders that will help drivers along their motorsports journey.
The name, Late To Grid? In the past the host, Bill Snow, was always late to the track, late to get the car ready, and hence - Late To Grid. His goal with the podcast is to grow the sport and highlight the tools and resources that will help you get to the track and faster behind the wheel.
Late to Grid - Grassroots Racing
Matt Busby on Racing, Track Operations, and the Future of Motorsports
Bill sits down with Matt Busby, President and CEO of Thunderhill Raceway, to talk about everything from his love of rotary engines to the future of track day events. Matt shares his incredible journey from being a car-obsessed teenager in Louisiana to managing world-class racing facilities, including NOLA Motorsports Park and NCM Motorsports Park.
We dive into what it takes to get started in racing—whether it's through karting, autocross, or jumping straight into open-wheel cars like Matt did. He shares how saying "yes" to an unexpected job offer in motorsports set him on the path to managing some of the most well-known racetracks in the country. Plus, we explore the business side of racing, from track operations to the evolving expectations of modern-day racers.
Matt also has some wild track stories, including a late-night minibike jousting match, an insane wrong-way incident on track, and the time a tornado nearly wiped out NCM Motorsports Park. We also discuss the biggest mistakes new drivers make at track days, how racing facilities must adapt to changing demographics, and why building a welcoming paddock culture is key to growing grassroots motorsports.
💥 Whether you're a seasoned racer, a weekend track warrior, or just curious about the industry, this episode is packed with valuable insights, entertaining stories, and expert advice from someone who lives and breathes motorsports.
🎧 Tune in now for an inside look at the world of motorsports!
Tired of funding your own racing? Learn how to secure sponsorships with Atomic Sponsorships. Join the waitlist and be the first to get the discounted sponsorship program. This proven and successful process will not only help you identify real sponsors, but also build relationships with people that will help you pay to race. Visit AtomicSponsorships.com to join the waitlist.
If a podium is your goal in 2025 you need to head over to see the Atomic Autosports team. From custom track alignments and corner balancing to fabrication work and everything in between - Atomic Autosports gets your car ready for the track. Visit Atomic Autosports.com to learn more.
From simple tire swaps and brake upgrades to corner balancing and dialed in alignments, Atomic Autosports gets your car ready for the track. Whether you are an autocrossers, time trial, road racer, or track day junkie - the team at Atomic Autosports can tailor their services to your budget and your needs. Visit AtomicAutosports.com to learn more.
Thanks for listening and taking an interest in growing grassroots racing. The Late To Grid podcast shares the stories and inspiration that help listeners along their motorsports journey.
Find all episodes on the Atomic Autosports website.
It's Bill. This is a late to grid podcast. I am back in the Atomic Auto Sports studio, and in this episode I talk with Matt Busby from Thunder Hill Raceway. And guess what? He talks about how to get started in racing, whether you're already in racing or you want to get started in racing, and also the business side of racing, this is a must listen to. Plus, we hit on the future of racing, how he sees it from a venue track operator perspective and we talk about a lot more. Let's throw the green flag on this episode. It's Bill with the Late to Grid podcast. You are back in the Atomic Auto Sports Studio, and I'm bringing you another great discussion of, er, someone that's involved in motorsports and has a great journey, and that's Matt Busby with Thunder Hill Raceway. Matt has a great racing and motorsports background. He's a great business background in motorsports. And Matt, it is great to have you on. Hey, thank you for having me very much. I'm excited to chat with you. And, yeah, thank you again. Yeah. So let me set this up for the listeners. So, Matt and I got connected at Prix 2024, and it was Brandon Anderson, a mutual friend that Matt and I have. That's. He told me, listen, I got a great guest for you on the podcast. And sometimes when I hear that, I'm like, oh, sure. But, as we head over to the the business member lounge to meet you, Matt, you're standing with Rob. Dom, having a conversation, and Brandon and I walk over and I'm like, all right, that I knew immediately Matt is somebody I got to have on the podcast. If nothing else, a fellow rotary guy. But then we had a discussion inside the lounge that was just was awesome. So I'm glad we finally got this put together. Let's, let's talk about rotaries. So we're going to start right there. What is your love affair with fast spinning Doritos inside of an engine? Man. So I think, you know, I'm part of and I think a lot of people are, around my age. I'm 38. I'm part of the GranTurismo generation. Right. And so the seven eight, seven B was one of the coolest things you could get in GranTurismo. And it made all the right noises, and it looked cool and and, you know, it was around that time where like, you know, sport compact car, super street import tuner, all that kind of stuff was like the car culture that we were ingrained in. Yeah, we read hot rod and car craft and all that kind of stuff, but like, those were the magazines that we really like, got all of our information from. And so I just kind of, been a bit of, of a contrarian my entire life to where, like, hey, if everybody's doing the LZ thing, well, I can't do the LZ thing because everybody's doing it, you know? And, it just so happened to where, you know, in Louis, I grew up in Louisiana, and in Louisiana, you're actually allowed to get a job at 14. And so the day I was eligible, I went and got a job, and I started saving my money because there was an FCS seven right down the street from me that had been sitting for years and years and years. And, guy who owned it told me if I showed up with $1,000, he would sell it to me. And so, you know, my whole mission for that entire year was to go out and buy that FC. And, since then, so that we go out, we buy it, I earn the money. And, I couldn't drive a manual. And like, my mom was petrified of a 14 year old driving at home because, you know, insurance and all that. So she had to drive at home for me. Transmission blew up on the way home. And. Yeah. And then it it sat in my driveway for six months while I had to save up the money to get a new transmission and put it in and all that kind of fun stuff. But, since then, I have owned 27 FC, seven, I've had three FDS, two FBS, and I am on my first eight. Oh my goodness of those. We're going to get the eight in a minute because I just picked one up not running, but now it's running. All those FCS and FDS. Do you have any of them left? I sold the last one I had. I had an FD that sat at my mom's house in New Orleans for about a decade because I blew it up. And then, you know, hey, I've been moving around the country and doing a lot of stuff, and, I didn't have I didn't want to put any kind of, like, money or anything toward it. So I just sat at my mom's house and then I guess, you know, those things have gone obscene and crazy value. And somebody offered me a bunch of money that I couldn't turn down. And, but I'm pretty sure that there's, a couple of FCS sevens that are still technically mine that I don't have anymore. But, you know, we stripped for parts and maybe left somewhere. But, yeah. No, the eights, the only one left. Oh my goodness. And that's a caged car, right? Yeah, actually, it's, So back in the day before, before Grand Amana LMS merged, the what's now the Michelin Pilot challenge used to be called the, the Grand Dam Coney Challenge. And this was an actual, body and white. It has a vent on it, but it was never registered. It's a, speed source. Who's, Mazda race team at the time? Speed sauce, Coney challenge chassis. And like for extra nerd nerd stuff. Tarzan Yamada. It's the car he drove at Daytona. You know, in in Grand Dam. And it it changed hands through a few people, and, fella that works over at g speed and, in Texas had the chassis, and he'd been sitting on it, sitting on it for a while, and we worked out a deal to where he actually, sold me the car and and delivered it to me from Texas to California. It was pretty cool, Oh, wow. Yeah. So the car's got, like, pedigree and history, and I've completely ruined all of it, and, Yeah, so. But it's really, really cool, Jesse. Well, you're you're keeping it alive in some respects because you're, you know, you're going to have it back on track. And you mentioned before it's at a shop. What do you haven't done? So we, originally came you came to me with, no engine, no transmission. And who had ever had it before me had a sequential in it, and they had done a lot of, like, really weird stuff, under the car, to accommodate that, that sequential transmission, obviously, because it's a powerplant frame car like the Rx7 to, you know, Miata and stuff like that. So we kind of looked at it as a bare chassis, almost like a two chassis, like, hey, yeah, this is in the shape of an RC, but we can do whatever we want. And I really wanted to stick with a rotary. It's always been kind of a dream of mine, obviously, to, build that, like, you know, 10/10, you know? You know, Jurassic Park spared no expense kind of rotary car. And so, we ended up going with an E production, production, for our seven engine. Nothing crazy built to production standards, but, you know, hey, look, those are, at this point, they've been racing in SCCA since the, since the 70s. And so there's a really tried and true, you know, the guys who build them are really, really good at building them. They make a ton of power. And now we're converting it over into an empty, new Max-Q to try to get all the unnecessary weight and all the unnecessary complication out of it. And so it's at, shop here in Sacramento called magic Developed, and they're doing all the wiring, making the motor mounts, all that kind of fun stuff. I I'm finally, finally in a place in my life where, like, I, I could afford to, like, drop a car off to somebody and say, yeah, just do it. You know. That's a good place to be. Yeah, yeah. So. What's the goal with that car? When will, when do you think it'll be done? Well, it'll be its first event. Oh, man, I I've been doing this long enough to, know better than to put a deadline on finished race cars. Hopefully we're shaking it down by May. The original intention was to build it for gtk to run with grid life. As grid life had a West coast championship here at Thunder Hill, Laguna Seca and Willow Springs. This season they announced that they're not coming back to Willow Springs with Thunder Hill. And they're not doing the West Coast Championship deal. So I'm kind of on the fence of where where it's going to fit. We, as Thunder Hill are, owned by the, San Francisco region SCCA. And so there's, there's a world where the car just gets, you know, kind of squeezed into stew and, you know, regionally stew, not nationally, because there's some bits on it that aren't going to be legal. And so I don't know. Does it still have a dash? Not anymore. I thought you needed a dash stew. Or maybe that's something I don't think you can get around. That's part of it. I guess if we're playing the robot game, it just says you need a dash. It does not say that that can't be made out of painter's tape. If the rulebook doesn't explicitly say it, so be it. Yeah. I'll have somebody call me at tac, and and, if I'm honest, I think the where I'm at with my racing and everything now, you know, if I go out, take the green flag, race a good race, go to tech, and then just take a DQ because of something silly like that. I don't care. Are you having fun? That's what it's about. Yep. That's great. Well, let's go way back and talk about the beginning of your motorsports journey. You mentioned earlier in the show that you grew up in Louisiana. It was some of your first exposure to motorsports was the IMSa events that were held. What track was that? So, in 90, 91 and I think 92, IMSa came to New Orleans and they did the Grand Prix of I think they called it like the, the Model Gras Grand Prix the first year. And then it was the Grand Prix in New Orleans a couple of years after that. But it was it was not an actual racetrack. It was a street circuit, on like pointers and stuff like that around the Superdome. And so you race around the Superdome. But it was really, really funny. If you go back and watch, I think YouTube has some like, some footage from those races back in the day. It's New Orleans. New Orleans is not known for having glass smooth surfaces. And so you can see the like the Camel Lites prototypes literally hopping from piece of asphalt to piece of asphalt because the roads are so bad, they're just jump from place to place. But no, I, we went to those races as a kid, and, and that was always really exciting. And my, my dad and then my stepdad were both kind of car people, and, was always, like you said, you know, got a job really early and was always around, you know, CarMax machines, car media, all that kind of stuff. Was really fortunate to get to do some really cool karting things as a kid, you know, here and there, and, and that kind of blossomed into more and more opportunities where a friend let me drive his go kart and then he let me drivers go kart a lot because he wasn't driving it. And then I got a go kart and that kind of thing. So it kind of spiraled out of control really organically. Yeah. And you guys race those karts competitively. We did. We did, we primarily stayed. We tried a few different things. That go karting, especially from a powertrain standpoint, has gone through a lot of it. You know, a lot of iterations, especially since the mid 90s. But we primarily stayed in the Rotax, ecosystem. I did a lot more Rotax racing when I started racing in our, start working at Nola. Obviously we had a, you know, nicest, nicest, racer kart track in the country. And, you know, the kart shop was there, the storage. And so we like your punch out. You literally go into the kart shop, you pull your car, you know, off the rack, put it on the ground, warm it up, go out, rip some laps, put it away, go home every day. It was pretty neat. Had some competitive races, did some national racing, all that kind of stuff. Oh, that's so fun. Do you ever happen the car? Do you guys have anything like that at Thunder Hill? No. Not anymore. And, that was, pre-marriage, so maybe 100, 125 pounds ago. So, yeah, I don't know how, how in a go kart would, would go after that, but, you know, being around that community and that community in New Orleans was really small. It it got me like, Hey, that you're pretty good at that. Do you want to do some laps in my Formula Ford? Yes, of course I do. And, you know, it kind of kind of snowballed into I tried a an old Reynard, Formula Ford, and it was a lot of fun. And then me and my stepdad went out and found one and bought it and started putting it back together, and, you know, pretty unsuccessfully tried to race it, but it was it was a lot of fun. Oh, man. How long did you have that Ford formula Ford? We probably kept that car for two years, and then, and then got into, Formula Mazda. Found a, you know, a pretty good deal on a wrecked formula. Mazda, did a few regional races with that, and then, got into, again, a wrecked, star Mazda and did a few races in that. And it was just one of those things where we just kept accidentally upgrading and then having the same epiphany of, man, this is way more expensive than we thought it was going to be, but at least we're having fun. So most people do something with fenders before they get into the open wheel stuff. Most. Not all. So what what what drew you to, it was it just the invitation and the. And the formula Ford. What you like about open wheel? It was just the opportunity. It was. That was what was available, you know, available to me. I actually, I didn't do my first, like, autocross run, like, I didn't autocross until I was, like, 20. Like, I didn't, didn't get to do that. I'm still very bad at that. But, no, it was not like a decision or a choice or anything like that. It was purely opportunity, like, hey, you want to drive this? Sure. I'll. That's great. Let's talk a little bit about how you made the transition. So you're into this motorsport stuff and you're you're driving, you're having a good time getting the adrenaline. When did when did the light bulb go off to say, maybe I can have a career in this industry. How did that all come about? I think part of me, you know, being around the race cars and being around all of those things, I was really one track minded, and that's what I wanted to do. And and not from a, a discipline or a resolve place, but from like that. Really like from a kid place where like, no, I love this. I don't want to do anything but this. So I did a few, had a few mechanics jobs. I, I did a few semesters at LSU. I my majored in physics because I'm like, oh, yeah, I want to be an aerodynamicist or I want to be a chassis engineer or something like that. You know, got a job as, dealership mechanic and bounced around to a couple of dealerships, while I was going to school. Ended up having, like, there were there was a period there where I was in school and had three jobs, and it was kind of a nightmare. But, throughout that whole thing, it was really focused and like, I, this is the only thing I want to do, write about my second or third year of college. I got an opportunity with my uncle to start a business, doing it work. And, you know, it was basic desktop support, exchange servers, you know, boring stuff, but it paid particularly well. And, you know, the one of the jobs that we got, we, we were one of the contractors that networked all of the, cleanup sites for the BP oil spill. And, you know, I mean, I'm 19 or 20 years old, and I'm making $160 an hour is pretty awesome. And so, I kind of dropped out like it was making so much money that, hey, I dropped out of school. I kind of took a break from the race car thing, to focus on just trying to make money so I could go back and do the race car thing. Right? And, right about the time that the BP oil spill job was ending, they were building, Laney Schwab's was building Nola motorsports Park in, in Avondale, New Orleans, and they put out, you know, put out a request for somebody to come build their network phone systems, camera systems, the whole whole kit and caboodle. Working with a guy named Wes Ratcliffe who, really, really, crazy intelligent guy. He was, chief technical officer for USAID up until recently, doing a lot of really cool stuff with timing and scoring in live streams and all that kind of stuff. But I put the bid together and, we got the bid, spent a tremendous amount of that man's money. It was very much you wanted the best of everything. And he got the best of everything. And, Yeah, at the end of it, it was, Okay. Well, who do I train on how this stuff works? Because it wasn't. You know, it's not just like a home router where, like, if it doesn't work, you just go and plug it for 30s and pull you back in, like, this was layer three really complex networking. We had like ten VLANs. And they're like, yeah, we, we don't really have that guy. Do you want to be that guy? We'll pay you $15 an hour. That's a pretty big pay cut. But yeah, absolutely. This is a no brainer. I want to do this. And, I think if I were to talk through it with my, fiance or wife, I don't know if we were married at the time. No, we were not married at the time. Girlfriend at the time. If me and Courtney would have had a discussion about the reality of what this was, I probably wouldn't have done it. But, yeah, took a big pay cut. Kind of shuttered, the IT business and started working full time as the IT guy at, at Nola and that evolved into doing a lot more operational stuff, helping with the NASA region there because Nola had their own NASA region, the car series, it just kind of snowballed into doing a little bit of everything. So, folks, I want you to listen to that. So he said yes to a job that didn't pay anywhere near what he was making, but he saw the opportunity and look where he is now. He's had tons of sevens. That's that's the big takeaway. But no, he he's worked at different racetracks. He's he's a leader in the industry. He gets geeked up about asphalt configurations and mixes that I think it says a lot when you're presented with an opportunity. You could have said yes or no and you had a hunch, something in your guts, and this is probably going to lead to somewhere else. I want to be. Yeah, that's really cool. It was very much, you know, at the time, I mean, Nola was still I came in right as they started pouring asphalt and, in certain areas. But, I mean, I mean, I'm not sure the exact number, but the rumor was or the, the, the vibe was like, hey, you know, Laney spent 80, $90 million on that facility. Like, this was, Hey, I'd be, you know, I'd be crazy not to be a part of this. And this is the exact industry I want to work in, and, oh, my gosh, there's race cars everywhere and go karts and everything like that. And, you know, being young and dumb, you know, he, just just jumped on it and that. That's not to say that there weren't, men ten, 12 years of, you know, really hard work. You got to earn it. But, yeah, I don't regret it in the slightest. That's great. So I eventually do want to talk about your on track experience and activities and things like that. But since we're talking about the business side of motorsports, let's continue there. So, how long were you at, Nola? I was at Nola. Was it Nola? For about four years. Five years? Okay, yeah. And then you went to NCM. Correct. So the original GM at Nola motorsports Park was a guy named Mitch. Right. Mitch has done a whole lot of really cool things in the industries. He's kind of, road racing royalty in this country as far as I'm concerned. Race Trans-Am in the 80s, in the heyday, you know, for the Archer brothers and was the head of SCCA Pro during the 90s through the World Challenge glory years. And then he was part of the group that Bill Miller, part of the group that built Nola. I worked for him at Nola, and then he got recruited to go up and help, the National Corvette Museum build their racetrack. And, you know, I had, we had just gotten done with the Rotax Grand Finals and we're getting geared up for IndyCar at Nola. And I was a, admittedly pretty burned out. And there were some things that were going on there that I was, I just needed I needed time away from it. And, so I kind of put, you know, put me in and my, my, my wife at the time or my girlfriend at the time, in a position where, like, all right, I'm just not going to work for six months. I need a break. I'm burnt out. And then like, three days later, Mitch calls me and says, hey, do you want to come? Do you want to come interview? I need an operations manager up here. Well, yeah. Okay. And so, went up, interviewed with them, and, you know, we had a six month old son. My son was six months old. And, like, again, just as a dumb person, like, yeah, sure, we'll move across country where we don't have any family on, on, you know, on this dream of being in motorsports, you know? Yeah. So, how long were you at NCM? And would you end up doing right before you left there? Sure. So I was there for ten years. I was operations manager, and then, promoted to general manager. Was, you know, that place is pretty dynamic where it's not it's not like a, a lot of traditional racetracks where, like here at Thunder Hill, we have different elements of the business, but we're a rental company, right? We have these facilities. We rent the facility to different clubs, organizations, you know, and they come in and put on the programing. NCM was very different in that, hey, there was a, a rental aspect of it, membership aspect of it. There's a driving club there. We had a, an entire stable of corvettes that we did a right, like experiential, kind of like tourism type drives. We had a driving school with those cars. We had a kart facility. And, you know, we ran NCM with a I think there was like five of us that were full time there. So, you know, you got really, really good at doing a little bit of everything. So there were days where I was, you know, booking the racetrack in the morning, taking phone calls, trying to get, you know, trying to get track rental done. And then I'd move on to instructing in one of the, in one of the Corvette programs. Oh, crap. One of the tires went down. Now, I got to go back to the shop and put a tire on while the, you know, while the the students are eating lunch, throw the tire on, wash up, get back out there, do more instructing, then come back in, clean the cars, put the cars away. Oh, now I've got a mountain of email. So it was, it was, 1000 miles an hour for ten years. And I loved it. Honestly. Oh, wow. Yeah. Sounds like a lot of fast paced. Lots to do. Never a dull moment. So what made you go leave, Kentucky Midwest and head all the way to the West coast? You know, there's there's a few things that that precipitated it, but, primarily, I mean, Thunder Hill is, 30 where our 32nd season here, the founder, you know, with with, San Francisco region, Dave Varden, you know, he built this, this big, incredible place. We're on 600 acres, two racetracks, two skid pads, mega profitable business. And, you know, he's he's in his late 70s, and it was time for him to, you know, go be a granddad and go play golf and and do retired guy things. And so, they had been, you know, Thunder Hill has been looking for somebody to, to take over for, few years. And, you know, at pre kind of for a handful of years had really gotten to know Dave and they asked if I would be interested in coming out and interviewing and, about taking over as president and CEO. And, my wife and I did and we've always, you know, we've always kind of liked we've vacationed out in California, and it's just it's so cool out here. That again, it was just this no brainer where, hey, if we're going to take the next step in my career, my son William was, ten at the time. Like, hey, we're just on the cusp, where if we if we do this now, he is young enough to where he can bounce back. If we wait any further, he's too old. And it'd be kind of a disservice to him. So we made the decision. Hey, this is the last time we're doing this. We're going across the country and, honestly, this is the best move we could have made. We're couldn't be happier. And, Thunder Hills, an incredible community. That's awesome. So you've worked at three different tracks. You've seen a lot. What's the craziest thing you've seen during a track day or event? Oh, man, there's been a lot of things. Many bike jousting. Midnight with the motorcycle race. Some of the, like, pro racers, people, people with name recognition got pretty hammered and got some pool cues out. And we're doing jousting in the paddock on many bikes. Had to shut that down. Have to go, boy. But it was something to see at the time. We had, we had a pretty interesting incident, at NCM where, if you've driven NCM, you know that, turn six, you can go, right, which is the track direction, or you can go left, which is a little cut off. Cut off road that takes you over to the 1415 area. And we had somebody during a hot session take the left and then try to turn counter down, down 14, which is tabletop, and that's like 130 mile an hour, like Blind Crest. And, you know, I was really proud with our, with our whole crew, like our corner worker crew, our safety crew, everybody, like, immediately recognize how insane this what what was happening and shut it down and everything like that. But, the the fellow, the poor fellow who did it had his girlfriend in the car and his girlfriend, like we were red flagged for like 20 minutes because his girlfriend gets out of the car with her helmet on and just walks all the way from 14 into the paddock and says, I need somebody to call me an Uber. I am not going home with that man. Oh my goodness, that is very crazy. We, at another one at Kentucky, we pulled, we pulled a pretty sizable, pretty sizable and expensive John Deere lawnmower out of a sinkhole that was pretty on Thanksgiving Day. That was pretty interesting. We there's been a lot, the the tornado at NCM, I mean, completely destroyed that entire facility. And I was really proud with all the people that that were there with us that, you know, we were back up and running, you know, I think 6 or 7 weeks after the tornado and, you know, it wasn't perfect, but I was really proud to, to get all that going and, and, and to see the resiliency of people in the community and, and all that fun stuff. Yeah. I asked you previously, what's the best motorsports advice you received? And your response was, never forget how motorsports is paid in two sentences. What does that mean? P1 pays the same entry fee as P50. P50 knows he's not going to win. He's the person you take care of, not P1. Don't forget you pays the bills. Yes, I like that. So we talked a lot about, the business side of what you're doing. Let's talk about getting behind the wheel, how, you know, after doing all the open wheel stuff and the Mazdas and the Fords, did you still get an opportunity to get out on track? Yes. That's one of the main perks. If anybody, doesn't work in motorsports and wants to, fair warning, the pay is abysmal. But there are, perks to it that are pretty undeniable. And that is, you know, at most places, you have unfettered track access. And so, you know, you get the opportunity to be on track as often as, hey, if you're not busy or if, if there's an opportunity to drive like you're there. Yeah. Go drive. And so, yeah, being able to, to, to, you know, especially once I started working in Nola where, you know, we ended up on the racetrack 3 or 4 times a week, in something and it's, you know, you get pretty spoiled, you know, being able to do that, you know. Have you ever done a zoom call or a conference call while on track? Yes. Multiple times. Now that is really cool. I, I could get into that. Yeah. There's, a lot of conference calls happen, especially at NCM, where, like, you know, we did our Corvette program, and a lot of those were lead follow. So, you know, you're in the lead car, it's helmet off because you're not going over highway speeds. And it's, you know, four laps. So three times by start finish. But, contrary to what most people think, you know, getting, you know, randos into corvettes, the problems that you have from a program standpoint is not people getting into them and driving crazy or trying to go too fast. Yeah. Every once in a while there's that person that tries to do that. But overwhelm the, especially if you're trying to hit a schedule. The problem that you have is you get these people in these cars and they will go over 30 miles an hour. And so for laps, at 30 miles an hour on NCM takes half an hour. And so like, hey, you know, you can't stop the laps early because you have a call. Nope. We're going to start the call in the car. And yeah, yeah. Did a lot of stuff that way. Oh man. That's that's fun. So, look, I don't let's just take 20, 25. Have you been on track at all? 2025? No, Not yet. I am supposed to, Actually, today we've got, Matt Field here with his, his new C8 drift car and his C6 Pro car. They're getting prepped for Long Beach, and I'm supposed to be getting in one of those cars today. But as far as driving, no, I there's, a few years ago, a few years ago, I had this kind of, epiphany moment that, like, even though there are some cars that I am invited, like, I still get invited to drive other people stuff all the time. And there are some of those cars that, like, you know, if the worst happened and I had to buy that car because I did something stupid, I could, I don't want to. I don't want to take anybody's risk. I don't want to pay for anybody's race car. So I've kind of gotten really weird about driving other people's stuff, just not because of other people, but just because, yeah, it's not worth the risk for me. I don't I don't enjoy it that much anymore, you know, like to, to risk somebody else's equipment. Right. So being behind the wheel is what got you into this industry. And you haven't been on track a ton since then. We got the NX eight, which fingers crossed. So be ready. You know, first half of this year get you behind the wheel. Does that 100% scratch the itch or is there more stuff you need to do. Is there another car or a rental? Endurance racing. Anything else? I, I was very, very fortunate to be invited to Co Drive with Heyward Wagner at solo nationals this past year. And that invitation has been extended again because I, so as long as I keep losing to him, he'll keep inviting me to drive his car. And I probably won't do that. That's proper etiquette. When someone let you drive. Yeah. You always. You always. You gotta. Let them win. Out there. Yeah. Because that's exactly what I was doing for sure. Sure. There's, there's a couple of deals. There's an endurance race coming up here where I've been invited to drive, and I'm kind of kicking around if it's not together just to get some seat time and and figure out, figure out, you know, the nuance of Thunder Hill. I plan on doing it. But, yeah, I think, you know, I prefer to do it in something that if I break it, I can kick it and walk away and not have to worry about it. Yeah. So your region of the SCCA out there, do you guys have club race experience? Oh, yeah. As far as the second largest region in the country, second to Central Florida region by 138 members. And we are going to close that gap this year. But, yeah, we do, four rounds for regional, races. So double regionals for those who have been doing SCCA races for a long time, for double regionals here at Thunder Hill, one double regional at Laguna and then a majors tour at Sonoma. And so, it's a pretty full schedule, really, really good. Strong. I mean, just at the regional races, we're talking 40 or 50 Spec Racer Fords, 40 or 50 Spec Miata. It's really, really healthy. Wow. That's great. So you've seen a lot of events across your history. What is your what's the biggest mistake? You see someone that's showing up, let's just say for a track day, what's the biggest what's the mistake? You see most often? I think it is the nature of this business, and it is the nature of the kind of people who are attracted to cars as a hobby, to try to do too much too quickly and try to overcompensate. The, the way I say it is like nobody wants to go to the gym and be the 5 pound plate guy, right? That just gets on the on the machine and just is lifting real small. But we all started there and I think the sooner you commit to that being the process, the faster you're going to progress. If you show up and like, you know, you're comparing lap times on your first day or you're worried about, you know, shark rebound or anything like that, you're focused on the wrong things. Do the fundamentals, the stepping throw to get your butt down for a ground ball, get the fundamentals down. Take the time to learn that everybody was there. Nobody's judging you. And it will pay dividends in the future. Oh that's great. Yeah. You do see that quite a bit where people are. Hey, you know, before I came, I did this, I did this, I did this, I did this, and you've only done two events before this, so yeah. You know pace it out. And I think your advice is, is awesome in that. Just get out there. Do it. Do it with what you have and listen to what other people tell you. That's a big one. Yeah I the the other bit about this that I kind of try to to temper stuff. We wrote a program at NCM called HPD. So obviously like an HPD high performance driver education or high performance driver's event, depending on how you want to carve that up. But we did HPD so high performance drivers introduction. So, the joke was, okay, we're going to write an eight hour on track program for all the stuff there. Bad instructor tries to fit in between the drivers meeting. In your first session, we're going to spend an entire eight hour day on that. And, a lot of that was, you know, hey, look, nobody wants to be the 5 pound blank guy, you know, all that kind of fun stuff. But the the one universal truth is, there are fibs, there are fibs being told in the paddock. More so than any other fish story I've ever, you know, ever heard. Oh, yeah. I'm running two tens around NCM. Okay, dude, you know, like, so try to temper, you know, anybody that's trying to do high watermarks or benchmark. Yeah. Or bench races or anything like that. Take every every ounce of it with a grain of salt. And just focus on your thing. Got it. Let's shift gears to balance work life balance. And you're busy guy. You got a family. You got a rotary, which always needs work. Yeah. What in the world were you thinking when you ran for city council? That's a good question. I still don't know the answer to that question. The, I, Was, was there a cause or something that you you said, man, I got him. I want to fix this. I want to protect. You know, I don't know if the city's near your track. I want to make sure that nobody's trying to kick the track out. Yeah. So. So there's two two aspects to this. First and foremost, I think it's the City of Willows and Thunder Hill. Or have a symbiotic relationship. We rely on the City of Willows for lodging and hotels and being a welcoming place for our customer base to come in. We are about two, 2.5 hours outside of the bay, which is our primary market. And so there's always there's always going to be a little bit of, hey, if you want to go to Thunder Hill, you have to plan around getting there and coming back. It's not like on the East Coast. The West Coast culture is so different where like on the East coast, me and a few friends like on a whim. Hey, do you want to drive 12 hours to Sebring? Yeah, man. Let's go do that. That is not the culture here. You know, of course, obviously there are some people who do that, but that's not the prevailing culture here. And so we need the town to be thriving for us to thrive. And the town, frankly, just like a lot of, small municipalities all across the country, is not thriving. And so, you know, wanting to be an advocate for the for the relationship, obviously, now, obviously Thunder Hill is not in the city limits. So, you know, that's the first question is there's no conflict of interest or anything like that. Like I can't vote on anything that affects Thunder Hill. It is purely service. I believe in civil service and trying to help the community at large. And then the second thing is, you know, not not partizan politics or anything like that, but like, politically, the the trend of the continuing, the continuing distrust in institutions is really worrying for me. And I think that that's going to hurt my kid. And so, hey, can I be part of, rebuilding trust with, with, our community and our institutions and, and be a good, you know, agent for growth and change and everything like that. So, I don't know, there's a little bit of, maybe a little bit of hubris in it. But, I just want to. I just want to help people, you know? Yeah. Well, sounds like you're doing it for the right reasons, so I hope so. Who knows? Maybe it'll be Matt Busby for president someday. Well, racetracks everywhere are best. Let's talk a little bit about the industry that you're in, the motorsports industry. You know, you rub elbows with a lot of folks like yourself. What? Where, our venues headed, where our track's headed. What's the future of the industry? That's a really good question. I think we're we're not, in my opinion. I think we're in a little bit of a transformative time in, similar to the 90s, if, folks remember, in the late 80s, early 90s, if you wanted to get on track, you didn't have all of the options that you do now, like track access has just gotten so, so easy. Compared to what it used to be, you either had to do a Skippy school or an SCCA school, and that was pretty much it. But as track access, you know, got, more and more, easy to get to and all of these track day companies, heavy companies, we saw this huge transformation of, industry in the business and how this, you know, how this whole thing works. And so, the, the idea that, like, if you're going to do racetrack things, you had to have the truck in the trailer and the race car, and it was a lifestyle, and you committed all your time to it and everything like that. You know, the the accessibility has led to people being able to to consume this hobby much more casually. Hey, I have a, I bought a Corvette. I'm going to drive to an autocross. I'm going to drive, you know, do my autocross, and I'm going to drive home. Oh, I can do that for time trials, or I can do that for track days. And that scratches the itch has way, way, way become the norm versus, I want to go racing. That's actually been what we're seeing. That's kind of that path for folks is kind of in decline. And whether that be economic, logistic or just from, content, pure content standpoint, we'll the wheel racing just isn't growing. It's going the other way. And some of the more casual things are getting bigger. And the next big transformative moment is the moment that I think the country is going to see where we have this, you know, this age group of customers that have really held the industry up for 30 years that are transitioning out, right? They're getting older, they're selling race cars, they're doing grandparents things, all that kind of stuff. And, you know, there's a concern that we're not replacing people at the rate that we're losing people. And so I think that, the, the from a facility standpoint, we have a big responsibility to make a really big leap in customer expectations. From, hey, if you think about what a customer who's, say in their late 50s or early 60s, what they expect from a racetrack versus somebody who's 25, what they expect from a from a facility when they show up is very, very different from, you know, comfort, creature comforts, internet, live stream, all that kind of stuff. And for race tracks, that's a really big you know, we've been on programing that, hey, we don't need that. All those things are luxuries. And now we're all of a sudden like, no, these aren't luxuries anymore. If we want to stay competitive with skiing or golf or whatever other hobbies folks can do, no, we need this stuff right now. And so there's this big push toward creating additional value and facility investment, and I think it's the right thing to do. And I think it's going to, I think it's going to be great for the industry. But right now, you know, I think our, economically, we're seeing, a little bit of a dip in participation across the board. And so, hey, we're making all these investments while we're in a little bit of a lull. It's a little nerve wracking. Yeah. Do you host a lot of your own events, or do you bring in organizers to do it like a track day or, an event? We try to stay out of it. We'll we'll do we do the test days before the SCCA weekends because those are, you know, pretty turnkey. You put people in the classes, you take their money and you show them where the racetrack is. Yeah, yeah, they know what's going on. Right? There's been, very much the culture here at Thunder Hill is, we don't want to compete with our customers. So if I started an HPD customer, Hvac company, I'm competing with the 16 HPD groups that rent the racetrack here, and I feels bad. So I'd rather work with those groups to set them up for success than do it myself. But, that's not to say that some of the larger scale stuff, you know, we've been kicking around, we've been kicking around doing some big kind of festival field type things. Just because I think that's kind of where the industry is going ahead, toward from a health standpoint, what we're noticing, at least right now in this moment of time is, the the events that are seeing high participation are special. They're not like, yeah, it's another track day. Come on out. Show up now. You're getting kind of may turn out for those, but if you hey, we're doing a car show, we're doing a concert and we're going to have barbecue, and we got an open bar after hours and all that kind of stuff. Those are the ones that are seeing 130, 140 paid. So, we're probably going to, to be much more involved in the, extra bits of that, but still rely on some of our, our, our partners to provide the on track content. Yeah. You know, I've heard from some of the younger folks, my folks, a couple of my employees, race and they said they did their first, grid life event, Glbt race, and said, Bill, you would not believe the difference in the paddock between I'm not going to name the organization, but between that group and grid life. And it's like, this is where I want to be. And it wasn't it wasn't one of the, events where there's a concert and all this other stuff. It was a pit race event, but there was still a very positive vibe. There was a it was a younger crowd, a more vibrant crowd. I think they did a meal or something. And I think it's great that you're ahead of the curve on this, realizing that, hey, this is if we're going to attract folks, this is the kind of stuff we need to be doing. And, you know, NASCAR even looked at it at installing mufflers, because they know that the next generation of fan wants to sit and talk. Might they just want to be there. They just want to be there. And I think that that's so that's so right. Right. Where the, the I it's going to sound a little reductionist, but like the things that happen on track are pretty much the same across all the organizations. Hey, we're going to go out there. We all kind of adhere to the same safety standards, all the the same driving standards, all that kind of stuff. So the on track content is not where the special things happen, the special things happen in the paddock and how you interact with your customers, what culture you have in the paddock. And yeah, I mean grid life. Adam, Chris and that whole crew, Abe, they've done such a great job. And and, you know, culture is the game. It's the entourage. Stuff's not the game. Culture is the game. And, you know, there are some other organizations that I do think have lost their way in that a little bit. And, and yeah, very much so to where, getting people, making people feel, like everybody wants them there. And that sounds pretty obvious, but you'd be surprised. Yeah. I have a few, just a couple questions left. So if someone's listening this and says, all right, I want to be like, Matt, how do they get started? How do they look for opportunities to get involved in the business? So racetracks across the country, they're all hiring, I promise you, every racetrack is hiring. That's one of the big things. Every year at PRI, all the racetracks get together and we get into a room and and we try to do some, you know, kind of industry problem solving. You know, that we joke about it, the three things we are going to argue about every year are waivers, EVs and drifting. But one, one, one aspect of our conversations every year also is corner workers. We can't get enough corn to workers. So if you really want to get started, most most places, you know, it's not like the SCCA, you know, where volunteering with the SCCA is great. It's a great way to get into it. The SCCA, training, tools that they've been putting out over the last year are phenomenal. But, I go out, start flagging on the weekends, and then, be annoying, be annoying to the track manager, be annoying to the facilities people, be annoying to the gate people. Hey, do you need help? Hey, hey, do you want some extra hands? Hey, can I come in on Wednesday? Be annoying and like, you know, earworm your way into more things at the racetrack and then just, you know, be reliable and don't be allergic to work. And it's it's pretty natural. There's a pretty organic flow up at most racetracks. If you're if you're not allergic to doing the work, you're going to go somewhere. That's great advice. All right. Time trials. You're on the time trial committee now, right? Because you have so much free time. Where do you where do you see and what's really cool that folks don't know about time trial? And correct me if I'm wrong. All the organizations I shouldn't say all most of the organizations in the US that put on time trial events are are collaborating. They're working together to make sure there's streamlined rule sets. And, you know, maybe calendars don't overlap. Where do you see the time trial programs headed in 2025? It's a good question. I think I, I admittedly, I'm not as well-versed on the GTA stuff, so I don't want to speak on their behalf or anything like that. But I think that they've been getting really good momentum over the last couple of years, and we're really excited to always see their brand around stuff. But the two, the two organizations that I have the most experience with are obviously the SCCA and grid life, and I think the North American Time Attack Association or Time Attack Consortium or something like that, that NATO, is really cool in that coordination to make sure that there aren't clashes and everything like that. But I think the, the way grid life is going, with the changes that they made this year to where HPD is now, that they're events and they're really focusing on giving quality track time to the time attack community, and then the GTK and GT groups is really cool. But you're you're seeing this kind of, this kind of, separation where I think SCCA is doing a really good job of casting a wide net of, hey, you have, you know, Stone stock, 2000 Mile End Miata. Come on out. We've got a class where you can be competitive, where grid life skews a little bit more toward the, Hey, these are purpose built things for a job, and I think that's a good thing. There's some, obviously some overlap. The max and the unlimited, max class. And the unlimited class in SCCA overlaps really well with, you know, depending on what you're in, Street might track modern unlimited. Same with the street class to the tuner classes and SCCA. So there's some really good overlap too, where if you're not, what what we're noticing a lot of in, in our surveying is we're seeing less people chase series and more people stay inside their region. So, hey, I can have my RC and it fits inside the Max rules. Well, it also fits inside the club TR rules where I can. All I have to do is add a little bit of ballast and I can go do both things. And I think that that is incredible for the community where we have this overlap to where it's not these siloed groups, everybody's playing with everybody else, and we get to build a much more, rich and, much more rich community with a lot of depth. But I really like the SCCA methodology of having, you know, having a place for everybody to play competitively. Yeah. For sure. All right. I have one question left. But before I get there, is there anything you would hope to. We talked about that we didn't. Oh, just, you know, we're all in this together. I think that, there's, there can become this, adversarial thing of, you know, participant two organizer. Organizer two racetrack. And, I'm here to tell you, because I've seen the movie a couple of times. The further you know, those three legs get away from each other, the worse. Everybody gets, right? So we have to find ways to communicate more effectively, be willing to compromise, and understand that, you know, at the end of the day, don't forget where the, you know, how the business gets paid for and, you know, yeah, just just communicate with each other. That's good advice, because we all need to exist in order to get on track. And if we start separating the opportunities to get on track, you're going to get, you know, fewer and fewer. That's great. Great insight, man. All right. Final question. In your racing days, were you ever late to grid? Oh, God. Yeah. All right. Yeah. My my kind of guy. Yeah. The last one I can think of is, So, Rotax. And I think it was the Pan American Challenge. It's like a big, big deal race. And I show up late because I was working and, like, lost my driving suit, found my driving suit, and, like, I jumped in so quickly and, like, on the tag karts, there's a little like, safety, like on and off switch. So it's like a master switch, but it's like it's a five cent plastic thing. And where I had it mounted, I got it into my cart so fast that I, like, hit it with my foot and like, completely buggered it up. And so I'm late to grid and I'm running and I start freaking out because now my master switch won't work and I start hollering and everything like that. And like the cart guys come over and like, as the grid is leaving, we're hooking up this master switch and like, just wrapping it around the steering column just so we can get out of the session and yeah, it was pretty fun. I actually had a, another one. I had a race at Eagle's Canyon where I showed up ten minutes late to the driver's meeting. They wouldn't they did not let me race that weekend. Oh my gosh. Stuck. Wow. Yes. Death penalty there. Yeah. So the lesson there is folks get to grid early. Well Matt, it was great having you on the podcast. I really enjoy the discussion. You have an awesome journey and I love where you are leading the industry and I can't wait to to watch where you take Thunder Hill and then the greater racing community. Thank you so much for having me. It's it's an honor. I'm super flattered. At any time I get asked to do anything like this. It's pretty cool to to to talk to a community. This is such a niche thing. And, my, as I've gotten older, my expertise has gotten so much more specific that finding people that are willing to listen to it is pretty fun. It's great stuff.